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Front legs

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zanzabarisminePosted 02/10/11 12:28AM Send a private email to zanzabarismine. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
http://s1107.photobucket.com/albums/h395/zanzabarismine/
I've never posted a photo before, so I hope this works.
This little guy is 2 days old- 16 pounds. It is HARD to get your hands on ANY marketable lamb for the Alaska State Fair- and this guy is the first born ram lamb in the area. His front legs bother me. The ewe has had free access to minerals- including selenium. Should I give him a BoSe shot anyway?
He has a twin- 13 pounds today, and she is perfect. She will not go to market.
You can "let 'er rip" with all the other conformation flaws if you like, but this is ALASKA and none of that will truly matter in the end (if those legs straighten out, anyway). We will be doing good to get 10 lambs in the 4-H market show- and they will be a variety of breeds, ranging from 4 to 6 months.
He walks fine, has plenty of spunk, doesn't act like he is in any pain. His knees look huge, but don't feel swollen. We have his sister from last year- very thick ewe. Hoping he will grow into himself- but don't know. Any thoughts on those front legs?

 
EmsoffLambsPosted 02/10/11 12:40AM Send a private email to EmsoffLambs. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
They should straighten out. A lot of lambs have bent front legs the first couple days.

 
zanzabarisminePosted 02/10/11 12:49AM Send a private email to zanzabarismine. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
I am being "picked on" a bit because I wouldn't give the pregnant ewes a BoSe shot 6 weeks before due date. This one isn't actually from my ewe(anymore)- but I have had a little voice in her care (and especially with this lamb), none of my personal ewes had the shot either. I am now being told that this is proof that I made the wrong decision.

 
TheDad1Posted 02/10/11 01:34AM Send a private email to TheDad1. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
I'm with Chrystal that most likely the lamb legs will straighten out. (You'd walk funny for a few days if your legs weren't able to straighten out for several months too.)

How much you need BoSe really depends on the soil selenium content where your feed is raised. It's not uncommon for sheep to need more than is naturally present. Furthermore, there is casual evidence (I don't think scientific studies) that a shot of BoSe will help show sheep down in the pasterns stand more correct for a few days, (I personally think this is true) .

Normal deficient symptons are white muscle disease which is much more obvious than what your lamb has. Other symptons are reproductive failure. When I accelerated lambing, I was of the opinion that if I gave a shot of BoSe to ewes grazing on one of my farms they would be more likely to breed for fall lambs where ewes on the other farm didn't need it.

If your Alaska soils are very low in selenium it would be smart to routinely use BoSe. Since you don't, and you don't see white muscle disease most likely your soils aren't extremely low but you might be marginal and it's pretty cheap to give it.

 
zanzabarisminePosted 02/10/11 01:46AM Send a private email to zanzabarismine. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
The soil IS extremely low in selenium. I was uncomfortable giving the shot to pregnant ewes, due to the warning on the BoSe label cautioning against using in pregnant ewes due to an increase in abortion risks.
I can't get back to this lamb until Friday, but can give it a BoSe shot then, if there is a chance that it is needed. I have an e-mail in to the vet- but I like LOTS of opinions before I make any decisions!
The ewe has been going through a large amount of minerals throughout her pregnancy.

 
EmsoffLambsPosted 02/10/11 11:05AM Send a private email to EmsoffLambs. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
First, crooked or bent knees are NOT a symptom of a selenium deficiency. The first sign you'll see is weakness in the hindquarters that will gradually affect the rest of the body.

Next, we are selenium deficient here too. Ewes are given selenium fortified salt and then lambs are injected subQ with 1/2 mL BoSe after birth. I do NOT give ewes any BoSe for the exact reason you said. Now, I have heard of breeders giving it to bred ewes, but it's not worth the risk to me, especially if they are getting supplemental selenium in their salt.

As I said earlier, I'm guessing those knees will straighten out, probably by Friday when you can go see the lamb. But if they don't, it's not because of selenium (or lack of).

 
dustydividersmomPosted 02/10/11 11:26AM Send a private email to dustydividersmom. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
My vet told me to give BOSE before breeding to the ewes. I have had white muscle here, so I give vit E shots to the ewes 2-3 weeks before lambing when I give them CDT and give 1/2 ml Bose to the lambs within the first week.


 
zanzabarisminePosted 02/10/11 12:28PM Send a private email to zanzabarismine. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
Thanks, guys. I will grin and bear the criticism then. I had planned on giving the lambs born here the BoSe right after birth. Will consider giving it to the ewes before next breeding season.

 
zanzabarisminePosted 02/10/11 02:40PM Send a private email to zanzabarismine. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
This is the vets reply-
"Great pic. He needs little washcloth splints: wrap a washcloth (or half of one) around each front leg and tape them around so that they are like little casts to support and straighten his knees. It's a little tricky to get the right thickness and he'll have to learn how to walk in them, but believe me he'll figure it right out. Watch that they don't slip and replace them if they're wet or dirty. They may need to be strngthened with tongue depressors or the like. Call if this doesn't make sense. They may need to be on his legs for 2-4 weeks. I've done it lots, it works. (:"
Anybody else done this for legs that look similar to this lamb's? Can't see him until tomorrow or Monday- and was thinking it would be best to leave him alone if there is any improvement- but maybe trying the splints otherwise.

 
EmsoffLambsPosted 02/10/11 03:01PM Send a private email to EmsoffLambs. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
I really don't think that's necessary. The lamb is obviously able to stand and you say he's walking fine. I've had several lambs born within the last 12 days that looked like this and they've all straightened out after a couple days. As long as he's getting up and around to eat and doesn't seem to be in any pain, I really wouldn't give his knees a second thought. If his knees don't straighten out after say 4-5 days, then you may need to consider that there may be something else going on, but myself, I still don't think I'd bother splinting as long as he's getting around. Those tendons will stretch out eventually with use.

I had a triplet ewe lamb born a couple years ago who carried her head arched way over her back, nearly to the point that her forehead would touch her back. It looked terribly uncomfortable to me, but she didn't seem to be in any pain at all. She'd put her head down to eat, but would stand and lay with it arched back like that. I was concerned about it being polio even though I'd never heard of it in a newborn lamb, so I treated her several times with thiamine, but there was no change. After talking to a few other breeders, I concluded that she was just positioned weird in the uterus with her brother and sister. It took about a month and a half, but she eventually quit doing it as her tendons and muscles stretched out. By the time she was weaned, you'd never know she was such a weirdo when she was young. Moral of the story, sometimes they get cramped up inside the ewe like TheDad1 said, and with some time they'll be normal.

 
zanzabarisminePosted 02/10/11 03:12PM Send a private email to zanzabarismine. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
I know... I know... I know...
I will calm down about it. It is just SO hard to get anything around here- and I've got three of my own kids to cover and plenty of club kids that would like to try a lamb project. I've also got the valley's "main breeder" telling me I screwed up, so I'm paranoid.
No splints yet, monitor for a couple more days, 1/2 cc BoSe as soon as I can get out there- that is the plan!
Thanks!

 
EmsoffLambsPosted 02/10/11 04:02PM Send a private email to EmsoffLambs. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
That would be my plan of attack.

 
ESheepFarmsPosted 02/14/11 01:00AM Send a private email to ESheepFarms. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
I don't have a lot of experience with sheep, but I do with horses. When these babies are born they have a lot of leg and not a lot of room to put them inutero.

A lot of foals are born over in the knee (like your lamb) or weak pasterns. After a few days of exercise out in the field they all have straightened out.

So far my lambs have all grown into their legs and are doing great.

Give him some time and lots of room to romp. I am sure they will straighten out.



 
ausyladyPosted 02/27/11 10:24AM Send a private email to ausylady. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
I have a ewe that had triplets yesterday. Now the ewe hasnt stood up since. when I stand her up her front legs shake real bad and she goes back down again. I have her a b12 shot .any ideas what may be wrong with her. ( so far the triplets are fine, I removed the weakest and we are bottle feeding her

 
SHADOWRANPosted 02/27/11 11:08AM Send a private email to SHADOWRAN. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
Ausylady I would get some propalyne glycol in her and some banamine she maybe real weak.
also what condition is she in?

jim

 
EmsoffLambsPosted 02/27/11 01:16PM Send a private email to EmsoffLambs. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
Agree, I would treat her with some propylene glycol and also for milk fever (either calcium gluconate injected for CMPK oral). Perhaps others will elaborate on the treatment for milk fever as I've been fortunate to never have dealt with it personally. What and how much have you been feeding her before she lambed?

 
ttfsuffolksPosted 04/15/11 12:36PM Send a private email to ttfsuffolks. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
I give my ewes 1cc MU-SE IM (a stronger form of BO-SE which CANNOT be given to lambs!)AFTER birthing. White muscle disease causes weakness, as does milk fever. My lambs get 1/2 cc BO-SE SC in armpit within the first 3 days.I also provide loose mineral mix w/ selenium & NO added copper year round. If the ewe had trauma to her pelvis during the birth, she may be shifting her weight forward to take weight off her hind legs? Also check for aenemia. Be sure her babies are getting a chance to nurse. I had a 21 lb. lamb born 2 days ago,and her 4 pasterns are bent forward like cat paws. She has a hard time getting around to nurse, so I've milked the ewe a couple times & tube fed her. So far she's OK, but I'm not sure what's wrong.

 
SHADOWRANPosted 04/15/11 03:17PM Send a private email to SHADOWRAN. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
ttsuffolks we have been giving Mu-Se to our lambs for a few years now, no problems, as far as I know the dose is just small than BO-SE.
jim


 
john44Posted 01/31/13 03:18PM Send a private email to john44. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
Can MU-SE really not be given to lambs?


 
johnchesterPosted 01/31/13 03:19PM Send a private email to johnchester. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
Can MU-SE really not be given to lambs?


 
EmsoffLambsPosted 01/31/13 06:26PM Send a private email to EmsoffLambs. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
You can use it. I just believe it's more concentrated so you have to be more careful with overdose.

 
britskidsPosted 05/01/13 02:10PM Send a private email to britskids. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
I just had a twin yesterday. One of them has the same legs as above. Did your baby's legs straighten out?

 
oregonclublambshowmaPosted 05/01/13 02:31PM Send a private email to oregonclublambshowma. Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM
We have quite a few( 5 a year or so) lambs that have some form of leg "bentness" when they are born, always either triplets or big twins. they always straighten out. We have even had a couple lambs that have a slight curve to their spine or neck. They are perfectly healthy, and always straighten out as well. We always give our ewes Bo-Se once a year( before they are bred) and the lambs get it when we dock tails and vaccinate.

 

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